Asteve
Activist
Posts:930
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| 29/09/2008 7:03 PM |
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I need to borrow $700bn really quickly. I can't explain what for - there's no time for that... but it will be really, really bad for me if you don't lend it to me and promise to earn it and pay it in taxes really soon. I can't tell you what I'll buy with it - or who I will pay - but it is really, really essential - honest.
What was that? No? Do you not appreciate how important this is? You might remain poor... maybe you won't ever be able to borrow enough money to destroy your own future...
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Magrathea
Activist
Posts:435
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| 30/09/2008 6:47 AM |
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| "My bailout isn't working, please send more money" |
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chefdave
Activist
Posts:482
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| 30/09/2008 1:11 PM |
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| As president Bush doesn't even know the difference between Opec and Apec he shouldn't be attempting to scare the American public into agreeing to massive bailouts on uncertain terms. |
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Asteve
Activist
Posts:930
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| 02/10/2008 9:48 AM |
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It's a laugh a minute with the yanks. Now, it seems, with the $700bn splurge rejected by the House of Representatives, the bill was amended with an extra $140bn of political back-handers. The new $840bn deal has been rubber-stamped by the Senate (roughly 3:1 in favour) and will be back for reconsideration.
If your plan is, at first, too reckless and extravagant - try, try again - only with something more expensive for the taxpayer.
Wonderful. It's one to keep an eye on - if only for amusement value. Is there any wonder the masses can't manage their finances if this is the sort of shenanigans that government gets up-to.
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slicedcake
Activist
Posts:313
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| 02/10/2008 10:04 AM |
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NUMB3RS...
US GDP divided by US bailout...
$14294BN / $700BN = 20.42
UK GDP divided by Northern Rock figure(loan?)...
$2470BN / $200BN = 12
I.e. The Northern Rock figure is twice the percentage of national GDP as the US bailout figure. So it's worse for the UK?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7644238.stm
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slicedcake
Activist
Posts:313
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Asteve
Activist
Posts:930
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| 12/10/2008 6:05 AM |
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Sliced, I think you've got the figures off-base. Part of the problem is that the strategy in the USA and the UK are entirely different - hence the comparison doesn't work.
The US are buying assets that used to belong to the private sector with $700bn - and the money will go to "de-leverage' the financial system. This will cancel some debts... and will gain some assets for the government. If used wisely, the $700bn could easily be used to take profitable assets from insolvent banks... and be deflationary. There are, of course, other concurrent behaviours in addition to the bale-out. There are short term loans between $500bn and $1tn too... and the Federal reserve (in an unprecedented move) is lending direct to large corporations (allegedly to ensure they can meet their payroll obligations) where they are let down by commercial banks.
In the UK, I think total Nortnern Rock assets were about £100bn, some of which has been repaid. However... there's also £50bn to 'recapitalise' (buy - i.e. nationalise) other banks (RBS; HBOS; LTSB; BARCLAYS) all of whom are reported to have been in emergency talks of some (lightly reported) kind. The Bank of England is lending spectacular sums to the banks (on short terms) to ensure that they can continue to function at all (estimates are hard, but £500bn is not entirely unbelievable) and we have an SLS scheme (a bit like the existing US bale-out, but more transparent) which started life at £50bn and roumour has it is now running nearer £200bn.
I think that things are far worse in the UK than in the USA... though we've managed to remain in denial for longer. The global finance system, however, is extremely interconnected. I think, for example, the impact of the recent economic collapse of Iceland will have dramatically more significant consequences than most expect. In spite of its tiny population and industrially limited geography, Iceland and its Krona exherted a huge influence on international credit markets.
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slicedcake
Activist
Posts:313
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| 13/10/2008 11:33 AM |
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Posted By Asteve on 12/10/2008 6:05 AM
The global finance system, however, is extremely interconnected. I think, for example, the impact of the recent economic collapse of Iceland will have dramatically more significant consequences than most expect. In spite of its tiny population and industrially limited geography, Iceland and its Krona exherted a huge influence on international credit markets.
It's all been a bit of a can of worms. Lack of transparency (opaqueness), obfuscation... -hiding meaning with grammar straining sentences and over-use of obscure or made-up words and jargon.
Should the UK be bailing out people who have invested their money in foreign owned companies/banks?
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slicedcake
Activist
Posts:313
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| 13/10/2008 11:35 AM |
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"Leverage" = debt
...in financial service-speak?
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